Where do you think all the Call of Duty hate is really stemming from?

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Where do you think all the Call of Duty hate is really stemming from?

Post by .Luke on Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:08 pm

Seriously, it's a pretty mainstream thing to play newer Call of Duty iterations as it is to hate it. I'm more of a fan of the older Call of Duty titles myself, but jeez you won't hear me barking about it on any of GameFAQs' message boards. The most prevalent complaints usually boil down to : "It's the same freaking game every release!" and "ZOMG why is everybody so stoned/drunk/whiny on voice chat?".

For the latter, it's as easy as hitting the mute button on sore losers so you can hear your friends, or nobody at all, on voice chat, but with the former I think it's just because the multiplayer component stays the same. There's always a new campaign in each release with its own story, which is reminiscent of expansion packs for the older Call of Duty games on the PC, warranting a new retail release, IMO. Has the bulk of shooter fans stopped caring about single player campaigns altogether and spend all their playtime shooting with humans online?

On a side note, nobody complained about the open-source Quake III engine being repurposed for the bulk of the shooters on the PC back in the day, so why is crying over the reuse of DICE's own engine in each game a problem? It would be nice if they fixed bugs and made more balance changes, from what I've heard, but sometimes there's no need to do extra footwork on new tech for each game, IMO.
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Re: Where do you think all the Call of Duty hate is really stemming from?

Post by Paragon-Yoshi on Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:53 pm

I don't think you should brush off the critique about poor voice acting and constant re-using.
Cuz those are bad things.

Poor voice acting negatively influences the immersion and atmosphere of the game.
And if the game feels like the exact same game before, just with some minor changes, then I'd say there is no point for the game to exist at all.
More changes to make it feel like a new game can be expected.
Otherwise it's a waste.

Also, don't compare Open-Source with commercial.
The first is free and the second we pay money for.
That is a huge difference.


That said, I must say the modern CoD games serve as a prime example, why it's generally wrong to follow the mainstream.
In fact, I would go even further and say that distancing oneself from the mainstream and go a different direction is generally the better way to go.
I mean seriously, CoD has NOTHING that makes it interesting.
Cookie cutter paste gameplay, lame and overdone "Marine Cliche" plot, too linear and uninspired levels, uninteresting design...
Man, this game series is a total waste.

Could also be that I am more into worlds that are different from the real world.
Since video games are also about entering new worlds to me, I find fantasy worlds much more mesmerizing, than a world that is essentially the same as ours.
But anyway.


I think games like Crysis, Turok or Goldeneye 64 are much better games that are actually fun to play.
The offer much more freedom, better controls, better worlds, better designs, etc. etc.
Man those games blow the CoD-trash out of the water in every aspect.
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Re: Where do you think all the Call of Duty hate is really stemming from?

Post by .Luke on Thu Oct 18, 2012 1:06 am

Never heard about sub-par voice acting in the newer games, actually. The first Modern Warfare seemed to have decent acting, but I can't vouch for the other releases that came after.

Black Ops, what I remember, had some different weapons, but those may have been remodels of popular weapons, (Like the AK47.) as certain guns haven't changed too much in the past fifty years. Flying a helicopter was pretty new, but the controls were pretty much the same as on the ground, just in mid-air behind a cockpit! =P It did some things that were definitely different, but as for the rest of the series, I'm not too sure.

Paragon-Yoshi wrote:Also, don't compare Open-Source with commercial.
The first is free and the second we pay money for.
That is a huge difference.

A good point, but this situation is half and half. Because of the nature of GPL'd software, a developer couldn't contractually use the GPLv2 release of idtech3 for a commercial game if they planned on integrating closed-source components into the software, such as anti-cheat programs like GameSpy. (Meaning they couldn't release the full source code of the engine with the game, as demanded by the license.) So to work around this, developers have to become licensees of the idtech3 engine by paying a small fee to iD Software for full use of the engine. This way they can do whatever they want with the engine without rubbing open-source advocates the wrong way, or even be obliged to release the game engine's source code. (Assuming the idtech3 engine was modified, if at all during said game's development.)

tl;dr, you've got a point, but game companies had a useful exception to this rule so they could do many things with their games the General Public License wouldn't stand for, like cutting down on cheaters in online modes with closed-source anti-cheat software that isn't as easily exploited as the game by itself. So technically it was still a commercial game engine being used. (Which would suck for them because they couldn't take advantage of hardware compatibility fixes and improvements in the open-source ioquake3 branch, so that's a lot of reinventing the wheel just to make the engine run on modern hardware. idtech3 is pretty dated now and hasn't been touched by iD in over a decade, being busy with idtech4 and beyond.)

Paragon-Yoshi wrote:That said, I must say the modern CoD games serve as a prime example, why it's generally wrong to follow the mainstream.
In fact, I would go even further and say that distancing oneself from the mainstream and go a different direction is generally the better way to go.
I mean seriously, CoD has NOTHING that makes it interesting.
Cookie cutter paste gameplay, lame and overdone "Marine Cliche" plot, too linear and uninspired levels, uninteresting design...
Man, this game series is a total waste.

At this point, true, it isn't doing anything that hasn't been done before. The only reason to keep buying the games is for the online multiplayer since most players will move onto that, which I'm sure makes a lot of fans feel cheated each time, since the online CoD community is scattered across multiple platforms and titles as it is, and to make things worse, none of the multiplayer aspects of any CoD game do anything different besides their maps and models. No exclusive content equals no incentive, but the flock of players none-the-wiser moving onto newer titles practically forces a $60 yearly subscription, in a sense, on those who enjoy having tons of people to shoot.

Paragon-Yoshi wrote:Could also be that I am more into worlds that are different from the real world.
Since video games are also about entering new worlds to me, I find fantasy worlds much more mesmerizing, than a world that is essentially the same as ours.

I'm actually into real world so long as it's a different time-period, (Thus creating a completely different atmosphere for the game, like the earlier CoD titles did with the World War 2 era.) but otherwise I'm in the same boat as you on that one. Recreating a place like Earth during current times for the game's setting requires no imagination or research at all, as in no effort, which bores me to death, so if the story doesn't catch my interest, neither can the game's environments if it's not totally alien from ours.
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Re: Where do you think all the Call of Duty hate is really stemming from?

Post by Paragon-Yoshi on Fri Oct 19, 2012 1:17 am

.Luke wrote:Never heard about sub-par voice acting in the newer games, actually. The first Modern Warfare seemed to have decent acting, but I can't vouch for the other releases that came after.

Black Ops, what I remember, had some different weapons, but those may have been remodels of popular weapons, (Like the AK47.) as certain guns haven't changed too much in the past fifty years. Flying a helicopter was pretty new, but the controls were pretty much the same as on the ground, just in mid-air behind a cockpit! =P It did some things that were definitely different, but as for the rest of the series, I'm not too sure.
And yet Black Ops seems to be one of the worst of the series. But whatever...


A good point, but this situation is half and half. Because of the nature of GPL'd software, a developer couldn't contractually use the GPLv2 release of idtech3 for a commercial game if they planned on integrating closed-source components into the software, such as anti-cheat programs like GameSpy. (Meaning they couldn't release the full source code of the engine with the game, as demanded by the license.) So to work around this, developers have to become licensees of the idtech3 engine by paying a small fee to iD Software for full use of the engine. This way they can do whatever they want with the engine without rubbing open-source advocates the wrong way, or even be obliged to release the game engine's source code. (Assuming the idtech3 engine was modified, if at all during said game's development.)

tl;dr, you've got a point, but game companies had a useful exception to this rule so they could do many things with their games the General Public License wouldn't stand for, like cutting down on cheaters in online modes with closed-source anti-cheat software that isn't as easily exploited as the game by itself. So technically it was still a commercial game engine being used. (Which would suck for them because they couldn't take advantage of hardware compatibility fixes and improvements in the open-source ioquake3 branch, so that's a lot of reinventing the wheel just to make the engine run on modern hardware. idtech3 is pretty dated now and hasn't been touched by iD in over a decade, being busy with idtech4 and beyond.)

What's with you and your strawmans. Like, seriously!

At this point, true, it isn't doing anything that hasn't been done before. The only reason to keep buying the games is for the online multiplayer since most players will move onto that, which I'm sure makes a lot of fans feel cheated each time, since the online CoD community is scattered across multiple platforms and titles as it is, and to make things worse, none of the multiplayer aspects of any CoD game do anything different besides their maps and models. No exclusive content equals no incentive, but the flock of players none-the-wiser moving onto newer titles practically forces a $60 yearly subscription, in a sense, on those who enjoy having tons of people to shoot.
Nothing to add.


I'm actually into real world so long as it's a different time-period, (Thus creating a completely different atmosphere for the game, like the earlier CoD titles did with the World War 2 era.) but otherwise I'm in the same boat as you on that one. Recreating a place like Earth during current times for the game's setting requires no imagination or research at all, as in no effort, which bores me to death, so if the story doesn't catch my interest, neither can the game's environments if it's not totally alien from ours.
I too enjoy games set in the real world. But as long as it still is different in some way, I can enjoy it.
GTA for example has fictional cities and situations that have nothing to do with reality. Which is why I enjoy playing it. Smile
(Of course, this is not the only reason...)
Crysis is more science-fiction, due to Aliens and the way they warp the world around themselves.
But it works.

Turok is also set in a fictional world, where Dinosaurs, humanoid Dinosaur-hybrids and many other creatures live alongside with humans.
Which does make the game interesting by default to me.


I guess you see where I am going.
Games generally get me better, the more fantasy-like the world is.
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Re: Where do you think all the Call of Duty hate is really stemming from?

Post by .Luke on Fri Oct 19, 2012 3:32 pm

Black Ops is the worst in the series? That blows my mind, I figured it was interesting that they had a consistent story from one character's perspective; quite different from the other Call of Duty's, but that alone can't make a game better. Even if the story is involving the game itself can still look and play so badly it's like the developers are pissing in your eye. *coughcoughsonicchroniclescoughcough*

Paragon-Yoshi wrote:What's with you and your strawmans. :roll:

No strawmans, just saying in an unfortunately long-winded way that professional game companies were still using a commercial game engine, one way or another. Although the idtech3 engine was open-sourced, developers still had to shift a little capital around for a license to have the freedom to do whatever they wanted with it.

However, the fact that most studios actually overhauled and tweaked the Quake III engine for their games (Like Ravensoft's Star Trek : Elite Force 1 and 2, or the first Call of Duty.) probably still separates them from what DICE is doing with Call of Duty and Medal of Honor series.

Paragon-Yoshi wrote:Games generally get me better, the more fantasy-like the world is.

I know what you mean; it's much easier to dive into a game that separates itself from the real world, even if abstractly so like Rez or some of the arcade style game modes included with Wipeout. Games like Prototype probably bore me for that reason. Alex Mercer is just a totally supernatural and unstoppable guy/virus smashing painfully generic Military tanks and helicopters in the middle of freaking Wall Street in New York. (Even worse the game just feels like an unfinished beta with most of its bugs squashed, blegh.) There's nothing remotely interesting or alien about it even if you get past its scatterbrained story-telling.
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Re: Where do you think all the Call of Duty hate is really stemming from?

Post by BossFight on Fri Oct 19, 2012 11:14 pm

.Luke wrote:Black Ops is the worst in the series?

I like Black Ops best, only because of the Zombies mode, which is a very good mode to play with some friends in my opinion. I had a friend who'd bring over his Xbox so we could system link and do four, and that's when it gets fun to me. I don't normally play Call of Duty at all if it's just me, even online.
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Re: Where do you think all the Call of Duty hate is really stemming from?

Post by Paragon-Yoshi on Sun Oct 21, 2012 11:20 am

Welp I based my view on this review:

But this guy also made it clear later, that Black Ops put him off.


But I rather not go more deep into this.
Since it doesn't interest me anyways.
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Re: Where do you think all the Call of Duty hate is really stemming from?

Post by .Luke on Mon Oct 22, 2012 5:00 am

And we don't have to, but that's not the point of this topic. I'm just trying to get to the bottom of the mainstream hate it's getting for a more condensed and evaluated opinion on the matter. Your own insight so far has been helpful, and I feel a little closer to boiling down the complaints into five or less reasons that hit the nail on the head.

BossFight wrote:I like Black Ops best, only because of the Zombies mode, which is a very good mode to play with some friends in my opinion. I had a friend who'd bring over his Xbox so we could system link and do four, and that's when it gets fun to me. I don't normally play Call of Duty at all if it's just me, even online.

Heh, that's the only reason my little cousin is keeping his copy of Black Ops too! It seems like a fun mode from the few moments I've played around with it before, but eh, maybe a tad far on the crazy scale for me, though. =P
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Re: Where do you think all the Call of Duty hate is really stemming from?

Post by Nai255 on Fri Nov 09, 2012 8:27 am

*raises hand* Ooh, ooh! I know this one!
Imagine seeing this every 10 seconds:


No but seriously, this is the main reason I can't stand certain things in general, if only because they're forced down one's gullet.
I happened into a TF2 server with custom pony models during the third annual Halloween event, and immediately declared it the scariest Halloween ever, but that's going sorta off-topic...

That said, I've been trying (somewhat) to not hate on things for no reason if it can be helped. I've never been into CoD and probably never will, but a friend did invite me to his place a while back for a few rounds of Zombies, and I'm not ashamed to admit I had a good time with it. Given a choice, I just prefer other games like Doom and Quake having grown up on them.

If something's brought up several times as the best thing ever, it's bound to bug anybody. If the majority hold it against you and take opinions as fact, it's even worse. My friend didn't mind that I wasn't crazy about CoD, nor did I mind that I was playing it with him, because we're friends. If someone holds an opinion against me to such an extreme, I can't really consider them a friend, can I?

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