Shantae: The Essential Conceptuals

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Shantae: The Essential Conceptuals

Post by Nai255 on Wed May 30, 2012 7:08 pm

I had been meaning to mention this at some point for those who may not know about it,
and I figured this would be the best place to do so:

http://web.archive.org/web/19970410130926/_www.wayforward.com/Shantae.htm
(without the underscore)

Taken from WayForward's old website in 1997, back when Shantae was still in it's conceptual design stage.
I found it interesting to compare all the original ideas with the final product.
The hairstyles and outfits in particular, which may have been considered for the GBC version as some unused sprites show here:
http://illiweb.com/fa/pbucket.gif

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Re: Shantae: The Essential Conceptuals

Post by Agent Gold on Thu May 31, 2012 12:03 am

Holy... I'm having some serious "road not traveled" moments here.

I was a little hesitant on the idea of changing her hair around, but that's mostly because I'm a fan of ponytails. Razz
If her hair looks just as long as it normally does when she changes it up, I think I'd be fine with seeing the different styles. Kind of interesting that with that first game, they kept the extra attacks that look like dancing, but they didn't keep the hair upgrades, and then they pretty much reversed that in Risky's Revenge.

It's kind of interesting that summoning animals wound up becoming transforming into animals. Which leaves a rather unfortunate missed moment staring me in the face... We could've had a tiger transformation?! That sounds so cool! I guess it didn't end up fitting into the final game (and I understand that's just how game development goes sometimes), but knowing what the faces of her other transformations look like, I can't help thinking how cool she would look as a tiger. I imagine it would be a lot of fun to play, too!

It looks like the transformation dances were actually a substitute for magic dances, which in turn became items? I reckon I can live with that. It's more exciting not to have to freeze the action to use attacks, and it's not so bad to do so for transformations.

Those outfits look like they would've been a nice addition (to the point where I'm starting to feel jealous that we haven't seen them). Who knows, though? Maybe they'll show up in a future edition of the game. I might've liked to see a little more difference between them than color, though.

That page was a really cool find!

...
Someone start drawing fan art of this stuff so we can see what it might've looked like!
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Re: Shantae: The Essential Conceptuals

Post by Paragon-Yoshi on Thu May 31, 2012 1:13 am

WHOA! O_O
I had no idea...

So she already was around when I was only 10 years old? All those years... D:
But I digress.


Really this was an interesting read.
And Shantae looked quite cute in her first design. But personally, I prefer the final version.

I could say more to this, but Agent Gold(finger >;P) already beat me to it.
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Re: Shantae: The Essential Conceptuals

Post by .Luke on Thu May 31, 2012 2:51 am

Who here thinks this belongs in the News Section? This is a mind-blowing find Nai, nice digging! Smile

Holy crap they changed a lot of things! O_o' And it was supposed to be for the PC and Playstation too? Dang, the original concept on the cutting-room floor is similar enough, but wow the direction shifted a lot. And I dunno about you guys, but that brunette ponytail's growing on me! *bricked* I'll admit, the purple does stand out more, so you guys can stop bricking me already! *brickstorm'd*

Anyway, I'm really surprised any part of the design document was on the internet, and I think the animal summons would have been much better, personally, but I guess the GBC's limitations might have changed that. The tiger form looked so cool too, how did that not make it into the final product? >:O The whole game would have looked so much better on the PC, I can only wonder what made them switch to such a limited platform in the end. Shantae officially deserves an HD remake, perish the thought of putting just the original game on the Virtual Console! =D

Agent Gold wrote:Someone start drawing fan art of this stuff so we can see what it might've looked like!

I'm tempted, honestly! =P I'd like to take a crack at drawing her earliest-known design. Prototype stuff always gets me excited! I've actually saved that article to my hard drive encase the way-back machine ever loses it.
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Re: Shantae: The Essential Conceptuals

Post by Agent Gold on Thu May 31, 2012 2:43 pm

Paragon-Yoshi wrote:I could say more to this, but Agent Gold(finger >Playful Wink) already beat me to it.

Ha ha... Well, I don't mind reading through overlapping opinions. By all means, go for it!

.Luke wrote:Who here thinks this belongs in the News Section? This is a mind-blowing find Nai, nice digging! Smile

Might not be a bad idea. It might not be current, but it's got historic importance in a way, right?

.Luke wrote:The whole game would have looked so much better on the PC, I can only wonder what made them switch to such a limited platform in the end.

This might be worth a little detective work--I wouldn't be surprised if there are some interesting stories out there about this. My best guess is that it has something to do with using Capcom as a publisher for the game, but I could be way off base with that one.

Of course, the choice hurt even more in the end with the whole "being overshadowed by GBA games" deal...

.Luke wrote:I've actually saved that article to my hard drive encase the way-back machine ever loses it.

Smart. I might just have to do the same.

Just adding one comment to what I said before, in addition to a tiger transformation being cool, the other option of Shantae riding on a tiger would probably be just as awesome to see. I would want to see something a little more substantial than "jump over a chasm and disappear", though. It'd be a waste to include it but not to give the player some kind of control. My ideal scenario with this would be sort of like the animals you can ride in Donkey Kong Country games.

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Re: Shantae: The Essential Conceptuals

Post by Paragon-Yoshi on Thu May 31, 2012 4:51 pm

Agent Gold wrote:
Paragon-Yoshi wrote:I could say more to this, but Agent Gold(finger >Playful Wink) already beat me to it.

Ha ha... Well, I don't mind reading through overlapping opinions. By all means, go for it!
Nah, I'd just repeat your words. And IMO there is no need for that. Wink


But there is one thing I'd like to talk about though: THE PLOT!
So Shantae was originally supposed to be a Genie that had no magic power to begin with and had yet to develop it.
Which eventually turned into her being a Half-Genie.

It seems that the plot was originally much darker.
So instead of a crazy pirate-girl, they were going for Jins that drain the magic power of the world and bring it to the verge of destruction (Hence the "magic it needs to survive" part).

It heavily reminds me of my "Evil Genie" concept. And I had no idea that there were going for something similar originally.
I swear I didn't know about this. o_O


Plus, the hostile inn's that cut off Shantae's hair really sound like an evil trap.
Maybe too evil towards the players? I can't say.
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Re: Shantae: The Essential Conceptuals

Post by BossFight on Thu May 31, 2012 7:15 pm

Paragon-Yoshi wrote:Plus, the hostile inn's that cut off Shantae's hair really sound like an evil trap.
Maybe too evil towards the players? I can't say.

Well, Risky DID want to get Shantae to get her hair cut when they meet in the last town of the first game. I could see her accomplishing that in some way, but I've also gotta wonder if Shantae's hair is too strong to get cut. I mean, that hair can take down battleships.
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Re: Shantae: The Essential Conceptuals

Post by Paragon-Yoshi on Thu May 31, 2012 7:26 pm

True. But that didn't happen.
But it appears that originally it WAS supposed to happen, if you are careless.
Pretty much the same as hatless Mario from Super Mario 64. Though maybe much more punishing.

Anyway, I also think that her hair is much more resilient than normal hair. At least how she is now.
It can't be cut off so easily, if it can be done to begin with. Wink
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Re: Shantae: The Essential Conceptuals

Post by slyboyseth on Thu May 31, 2012 8:34 pm

...The Wayback machine failed me.

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Re: Shantae: The Essential Conceptuals

Post by Paragon-Yoshi on Thu May 31, 2012 8:40 pm

Uhm, you need to copy the link into the browser and then remove the _ before the www.

Speaking of which, why did Nai do it like this? o.O
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Re: Shantae: The Essential Conceptuals

Post by SunnyLinda on Thu May 31, 2012 8:42 pm

"...The Wayback machine failed me.."

Did you not take out the underscore? ( This---> _ ) That might have caused that.

Onto the actual archives, however, it seems really cool to see prototypes of the game! c: I have to admit the brown ponytail's kinda nice, too... XD I also sort of liked the animal transformations too, though I understand they probably wouldn't work on the GBC; it makes me wonder what it would be like to see her on a home console. c:

Nice find, though! I just might try a jab at drawing her prototype... Wink
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Re: Shantae: The Essential Conceptuals

Post by slyboyseth on Thu May 31, 2012 8:49 pm

*gets the underscore out*

Ah yes, here we go!

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Re: Shantae: The Essential Conceptuals

Post by Agent Gold on Thu May 31, 2012 8:51 pm

Paragon-Yoshi wrote:Plus, the hostile inn's that cut off Shantae's hair really sound like an evil trap.
Maybe too evil towards the players? I can't say.

I would say whether or not it's "too" evil depends on a number of factors. I mean, if the healing magic can fix it, it's not so bad as a nasty little surprise now and then once you have that. Is it intended to be totally random, happen every time, or come off as a calculated risk? The last one is the one I'd favor--a roll of the dice if you need to stay at an inn (for whatever you need to stay at an inn for), but the only nearby ones have this chance. If it happens every time, you'll probably never stay there once you know that. If it could happen randomly at any inn (which isn't the impression I'm getting), players might end up too paranoid to ever stay there.

I kind of think it would make more sense if waking up hairless* was an in-story event that happened once or twice, like if you need to finish a certain mission without your hair attacks before you can get them back or something. Not quite the feel they appear to be going for here (the Super Mario 64 hat comparison is probably about right), but something more like what I'd expect to see in other games.
*Ponytail-less, anyway. I imagine they'd leave the rest of her hair, which would actually look kind of cute in its own right.

If it was required to happen at least once in the game... could you imagine the weirdness of a boss or enemy using a stolen ponytail as a whip against the player?

Paragon-Yoshi wrote:Anyway, I also think that her hair is much more resilient than normal hair. At least how she is now.
It can't be cut off so easily, if it can be done to begin with. Wink

I don't think we have any official statements or evidence that her hair is that much stronger than normal (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong), but I agree. Somehow I picture her hair being tough as steel. (Which makes you wonder if she keeps it so long because she can't cut it.)

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Re: Shantae: The Essential Conceptuals

Post by Paragon-Yoshi on Thu May 31, 2012 9:10 pm

Nothing much to add, except...

If it was required to happen at least once in the game... could you imagine the weirdness of a boss or enemy using a stolen ponytail as a whip against the player?
Oh where did you get that idea from?
:lol!:

I don't think we have any official statements or evidence that her hair is that much stronger than normal (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong), but I agree. Somehow I picture her hair being tough as steel. (Which makes you wonder if she keeps it so long because she can't cut it.)
Of course we've got nothing official. It's just a personal feeling. Playful Wink
But yeah, I can imagine her hair to be tough as steel.
Maybe she can't cut it because of that? Maybe her hair's length is permanent and never changes?
Oh the possibilities...
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Re: Shantae: The Essential Conceptuals

Post by BossFight on Thu May 31, 2012 9:35 pm

Agent Gold wrote:I don't think we have any official statements or evidence that her hair is that much stronger than normal (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong), but I agree. Somehow I picture her hair being tough as steel. (Which makes you wonder if she keeps it so long because she can't cut it.)

Well, it's stated in the game that her hair can dish out so much hurt because of her being half-genie. That's still due to the magical properties though, so it's hard to know if the actual hair itself is stronger.

Spoiler:
She may actually be able to cut her hair though, because when Risky was disguised a genie and suggested that Shantae cut it short, Shantae said she'd think about it.

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Whoa. D8

Post by SequinNomad on Fri Jun 01, 2012 1:07 pm

That's...huh.

So the game developed from 2.5-D, to 16-bit, to 8-bit, to 32-bit in the sequel?

Kryfin'-A, that's GOTTA be taxing on the patience of any sort of game programmer. :O
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Re: Shantae: The Essential Conceptuals

Post by Nai255 on Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:22 pm

Yeah, apologies for the way the link was posted, but that's the best I could do without it appearing all jumbled like this:
http://web.archive.org/web/19970410130926/www.wayforward.com/Shantae.htm

I remember seeing Shantae with a green suit in one of the screens for the cancelled GBA version.
Perhaps they were considering revisiting the outfits at least.
As far as the whole hair argument, I'd say it's pretty magical.
Like you guys were saying, it has the power to strike down the most titantic of Risky's Tinkertoys, eheh.

One thing I think would be neat is if Shantae used her hair to grapple and swing, Super Castlevania IV style

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Re: Shantae: The Essential Conceptuals

Post by Paragon-Yoshi on Sat Jun 02, 2012 10:33 am

One thing I think would be neat is if Shantae used her hair to grapple and swing, Super Castlevania IV style
I had the idea too. And I guess we're not the only ones who thought of this.
I mean this idea is pretty obvious.
Still would be nice to see.
I also thought about Shantae using her hair to grab and pull stuff or spinning around to "glide".

But this is getting off-topic.
I guess that is more suitable for a seperate topic. ^^;
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Re: Shantae: The Essential Conceptuals

Post by .Luke on Sat Jun 02, 2012 8:09 pm

I hope nobody mind's if I moved this to News! =P I think acknowledging a recent find in Shantae's development history is definitely news-worthy.

Nai255 wrote:One thing I think would be neat is if Shantae used her hair to grapple and swing, Super Castlevania IV style

That would definitely be worth exploring. I doubt she could swing much unless her hair could stretch to a considerable length, but as a life-saving grapple, quite novel! ^^ I'd like to see more uses for her hair like this, personally, even if it was limited to only being used in a cartoon series instead of the games themselves.
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Re: Shantae: The Essential Conceptuals

Post by Paragon-Yoshi on Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:44 pm

You know. The more I look at it, the more fascinating it gets.
I still wonder how Shantae would've looked like on the PC or PSX.


Plus, what if Matt decides to bring back the Jins as villains in the RR-sequels?
I mean, I kinda get the impression that this might be the case.
But of course, just an idea. Wink
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Re: Shantae: The Essential Conceptuals

Post by Axol The Axolotl on Thu May 16, 2013 11:39 pm

I never knew Shantae had brown hair.
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Re: Shantae: The Essential Conceptuals

Post by BossFight on Fri May 17, 2013 2:12 pm

Yeah that was her original concept, but I prefer the purple.
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