"Shantae: Half-Genie Hero" Kickstart Campaign

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Re: "Shantae: Half-Genie Hero" Kickstart Campaign

Post by BossFight on Mon Oct 07, 2013 11:16 pm

Looking back now, so much has happened since this forum started. Back then Risky's Revenge had been out for a while and we had no clue of the real chances that a third game would even be released.

Now look at her! A game finished and releasing soon as well a fourth now funded and ready to go! It certainly feels good to have been watching Shantae grow like this.
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Re: "Shantae: Half-Genie Hero" Kickstart Campaign

Post by .Luke on Tue Oct 08, 2013 1:05 am

I know man, there was barely anything being said about new games when we started these forums. Wow that has changed a lot, from Shantae Risky's Revenge getting greenlit on Steam, to Half-Genie Hero being fully funded and seriously happening. This has been a good year to be a Shantae fan. Awesome Face
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Re: "Shantae: Half-Genie Hero" Kickstart Campaign

Post by BossFight on Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:23 am

And then just imagine how fans of Shantae from day one over a decade ago are feeling right now haha.
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Re: "Shantae: Half-Genie Hero" Kickstart Campaign

Post by .Luke on Tue Oct 08, 2013 7:42 pm

Tears of joy, maybe? Twisted Evil Hard to believe it's been that long since Shantae debuted on the GBC, and yet at the same time, really speaks for how persistent the devs are with their original IPs.

Shantae might have normally suffered the fate of Ristar, but she hasn't. WayForward clearly loves their IPs too much to let them fall into obscurity forever.
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Re: "Shantae: Half-Genie Hero" Kickstart Campaign

Post by Guest on Tue Oct 08, 2013 8:28 pm

Oh gosh, he brought up Ristar. ;_; Luke, what hast thou done, sir. Pow, right in the feels. (Seriously though, Ristar deserved better! So did Klonoa....)

Thank goodness Shantae has ascended toward widespread recognition, in any event. I'm sure the fans of hers since day one are relieved and grateful. Smile

As am I. ^^ Although I knew of her back then, I'd never owned any of the systems her games had graced. Now that playing them has verified their greatness, I'm just a bundle of 28-year-old joy. owo DANCE! \o\ /o/ ~o~

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Re: "Shantae: Half-Genie Hero" Kickstart Campaign

Post by .Luke on Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:02 pm

Tekaramity wrote:Oh gosh, he brought up Ristar. ;_; Luke, what hast thou done, sir. Pow, right in the feels. (Seriously though, Ristar deserved better! So did Klonoa....)

Thank goodness Shantae has ascended toward widespread recognition, in any event. I'm sure the fans of hers since day one are relieved and grateful. Smile

As am I. ^^ Although I knew of her back then, I'd never owned any of the systems her games had graced. Now that playing them has verified their greatness, I'm just a bundle of 28-year-old joy. owo DANCE! \o\ /o/ ~o~
We can't forget poor Vectorman either. ;w; So many forgotten treasures on the Megadrive and CD system; it's a shame the popularity of mascots died down after Crash Bandicoot had his fun on the original Playstation. Ristar could have enjoyed as much love as Sonic, had the release been much earlier; it was built for success, being a quality platformer on top of Sonic 1's original engine. So many roads not ventured.

Another reason I'm glad Matt Bozon and the rest of WayForward have not let one of their personal projects slide into the backburner. Shantae deserved as much a chance as any other series, and after seeing the outstanding success of Half-Genie Hero's kickstarter, that's exactly what she's getting.
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Re: "Shantae: Half-Genie Hero" Kickstart Campaign

Post by Protoman Red Bomber on Wed Oct 09, 2013 2:26 pm

Half Genie will do a big upgrade on the series. Probably turning Shantae in to a mainstream franchise... Like, seriously! 

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Re: "Shantae: Half-Genie Hero" Kickstart Campaign

Post by .Luke on Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:38 pm

When I hear mainstream, I tend to think of games like Call of Duty or Halo, games that have popularized online multiplayer, and the room-to-room shooting format of modern FPS games. (Which tends to bug me, because they feel lacking without puzzles to solve or keys to collect in between all that shooting, but I'm old school, so I can't say much.) I don't think Shantae is in any danger of folding into the trends of mainstream platformers, or becoming a Rayman Origins clone with genies and belly dancing to garner more sales.

The things Shantae games do sets her remarkably apart from the rest, and that's the point. She may not always be a niche series experienced by a few, but I don't see unique elements of the series getting axed in favor of simplifying it into a mainstream game. Shantae games are already easy enough to play, (My little cousin finished Risky's Revenge by himself, and he's always the one making me play games for him.) so it wouldn't make sense to water down the game play now.
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Re: "Shantae: Half-Genie Hero" Kickstart Campaign

Post by Protoman Red Bomber on Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:11 pm

True...i've put wrong words here. I love old style platformers and Shantae is unique. I just thought that Shantae will get more popularity and highlight with Half Genie. As result, Shantae's franchise will be stronger and we can expect more sequels. : )

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Re: "Shantae: Half-Genie Hero" Kickstart Campaign

Post by BossFight on Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:08 am

It's okay Protoman we understood what you meant. I'm all for Shantae's popularity increasing, though! In fact just starting this Kickstarter made a WHOLE LOT more people aware of Shantae, and that alone is already a huge plus.
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Re: "Shantae: Half-Genie Hero" Kickstart Campaign

Post by Maetch on Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:37 pm

And after two weeks since the end of the Kickstarter, Shantae has barely made $825,000.

Typical... once the hype ends, all the "fans" vanish like Shantae was nothing more than a flavor-of-the-week. Like, seriously! 

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Re: "Shantae: Half-Genie Hero" Kickstart Campaign

Post by .Luke on Sat Oct 19, 2013 2:18 am

Yeah, the hype train's lost a lot of its momentum, but that doesn't stop any fan artist with a following to do their part. The game's got more than twice its expected funding, with quite a few bonus chapters and costumes galore, so the time pressure to make it happen isn't there anymore.

However, there is another two or three months it could get more contributors. It's hard not to feel down about it, I'll admit, but I'll try to keep my glass half-empty unless it's still below the $900,000 mark by next month. Anybody still wanting those animated cutscenes to be a reality still has the time to chip in.
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Re: "Shantae: Half-Genie Hero" Kickstart Campaign

Post by Paragon-Yoshi on Sat Oct 19, 2013 11:11 am

In all honesty, I would like to hit the Hero Modes goal and then stop.
I would be completely safisfied by then.

The two goals that follow after that, I wouldn't want to see in the game tbh. :/
You know what I think of these Dark Characters in general.

And full voice acting...
Meh, I still don't think it suits Shantae.

I'd rather stick to half voice acting. Where the characters only voice act the various noises they make.
And if lines are being voice acted, I'd rather do them as occasional one liners and the actual conversations done with text boxes.
Just like in "Mischief Makers". Wink
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Re: "Shantae: Half-Genie Hero" Kickstart Campaign

Post by .Luke on Sat Oct 19, 2013 1:23 pm

It's not like WayForward would hire talentless hacks for voice actors and actresses, so I don't think I've ever understood the aggression against voice acting in video games, in either this case and others. Half Genie Hero is trying to bring Shantae in the limelight, and adding features that are typically expected in the living room setting since the first Playstation certainly won't serve as a detriment to the game's overall quality and reception. Unless the voices were shoehorned indiscriminately into everything that prints text, I think it could add a lot to the immersion.

However, I do understand that with the recent Ducktales remake by WayForward, some players were annoyed they couldn't turn the voices off in the sound settings. Not because the game's VAs were terrible, (In fact, they brought almost the entire original voice cast from the show; only the best.) but because it wasn't to their preference, preferences mind you. They just wanted to play the game like the original, doing speed runs, and the cutscenes hurt the flow. It didn't stop them from making the purchase, but they could have enjoyed speed runs better if there were more options.

I don't let my own play preferences and ideology in game design muddle together anymore, (Something that is as disastrous as spraying aerosol cans around an open flame.) but to that point, it should be a given to include options for a game that's clearly already going need a whole host of them in HD. If the game is going to need a large array display options, it couldn't hurt to have a voices/subtitles/captions options in the sound settings too. Very simple and keeps the older gamers from getting vocal about it. (No pun intended.)
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Re: "Shantae: Half-Genie Hero" Kickstart Campaign

Post by Maetch on Sat Oct 19, 2013 2:30 pm

Paragon-Yoshi wrote:The two goals that follow after that, I wouldn't want to see in the game tbh. :/
You know what I think of these Dark Characters in general.
What about Clockwork Night? If anything, THAT episode should be taking higher priority than the return of the cliche palette-swap villain.

.Luke wrote:It's not like WayForward would hire talentless hacks for voice actors and actresses, so I don't think I've ever understood the aggression against voice acting in video games, in either this case and others. Half Genie Hero is trying to bring Shantae in the limelight, and adding features that are typically expected in the living room setting since the first Playstation certainly won't serve as a detriment to the game's overall quality and reception. Unless the voices were shoehorned indiscriminately into everything that prints text, I think it could add a lot to the immersion.
The immersion in Sequin Land is fine without hearing everybody talk your ear off. To me, Shantae is a series that (like Mario or Kirby) is too clean and cheerful to have it all ruined by excessive voice-acting.

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Re: "Shantae: Half-Genie Hero" Kickstart Campaign

Post by Paragon-Yoshi on Sat Oct 19, 2013 2:41 pm

.Luke wrote:It's not like WayForward would hire talentless hacks for voice actors and actresses....
Nobody said that.
You're clearly not understanding what I want to say.
I don't deny that WayForward can do great voice acting. But this never was the subject.


The question was whether full voice acting in general suits Shantae.
Voice acting can make or break a game, regardless how well it is done.
It depends whether voice acting itself (NOT the quality) suits the overall environment of the game in question.


It appears that to you, quality of all that matters in voice acting. As long as the voice actors do a good job, it can be used for any game at all.
But sorry to say, this is not the case.
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Re: "Shantae: Half-Genie Hero" Kickstart Campaign

Post by .Luke on Sat Oct 19, 2013 3:53 pm

I understand voice acting can be rightly annoying to some players in games like this. However, in this case, something as simple as a voice switch in the settings can alleviate this for older generations of players who are better accustomed to silence. I remember quite a few Genesis games allowing the option to disable even voice samples, should you prefer the character's art alone sufficient enough for their outward expression.

I grew up mostly on fifth gen consoles, where talking and voice samples were commonplace, but you guys are much older than me, and went far longer without voices in games than I did, and I understand that, but let's not allow our own interpretations of what is artistically clean, or heavily overdone, start an unnecessary debate. Those differences we will not achieve in changing anyone's minds on, but that's not always the point of a debate, either; if they do not succeed in altering perspective, they can enlighten all parties on the other's point of view.

We can discuss the generational differences between players, or span the pages discussing semantics that are largely of personal preference, rather than poor game design. There are many 2D games, even isometric top-down ones, that use voice acting to great effect, even if it's in a storyboard format overlaying the game like Risky's Revenge.

What I am asking for is not controversy, but keeping an open mind. I could just as easily accuse you of being blind to new things by your own preconceived ideals for games, Paragon, but I haven't. Because that would not only be offensive and blunt, you would have every right to be upset. As a result, the conversation would obviously take a nosedive. Impassioned brashness doe not seed a coherent and civilized discussion, let alone an organized debate.

Had I never explored past first impressions of screenshots of the first Shantae, (It seemed like an average platformer that at least tried to be pretty.) and failed to have an open mind to new experiences, not only would I have never been a Shantae fan, these forums simply would not exist. Even if you still believe I am wrong, all I can ask is that you take at least this much into consideration.

Maetch wrote:The immersion in Sequin Land is fine without hearing everybody talk your ear off. To me, Shantae is a series that (like Mario or Kirby) is too clean and cheerful to have it all ruined by excessive voice-acting.
And that's what I was getting at in my post. In moderation, this can be done organically, but shoehorning voices in everything would be both annoying and flow-breaking, and personally, they would make the most sense in animated cutscenes anyway. Whether voices should markedly refrain from in-game text, as you'd likely prefer it, is something we share different opinions on, and that's fine.

In fact, I would actually be interested in your perspective, since I had very little experience in games before the fifth generation; simply playing a game from the 80's doesn't give me the perspective of a player from the 80's, so my expectations and desires for a game are different.
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Re: "Shantae: Half-Genie Hero" Kickstart Campaign

Post by Maetch on Sat Oct 19, 2013 7:22 pm

.Luke wrote:I understand voice acting can be rightly annoying to some players in games like this. However, in this case, something as simple as a voice switch in the settings can alleviate this for older generations of players who are better accustomed to silence. I remember quite a few Genesis games allowing the option to disable even voice samples, should you prefer the character's art alone sufficient enough for their outward expression.

I grew up mostly on fifth gen consoles, where talking and voice samples were commonplace, but you guys are much older than me, and went far longer without voices in games than I did, and I understand that, but let's not allow our own interpretations of what is artistically clean, or heavily overdone, start an unnecessary debate. Those differences we will not achieve in changing anyone's minds on, but that's not always the point of a debate, either; if they do not succeed in altering perspective, they can enlighten all parties on the other's point of view.

We can discuss the generational differences between players, or span the pages discussing semantics that are largely of personal preference, rather than poor game design. There are many 2D games, even isometric top-down ones, that use voice acting to great effect, even if it's in a storyboard format overlaying the game like Risky's Revenge.

What I am asking for is not controversy, but keeping an open mind. I could just as easily accuse you of being blind to new things by your own preconceived ideals for games, Paragon, but I haven't. Because that would not only be offensive and blunt, you would have every right to be upset. As a result, the conversation would obviously take a nosedive. Impassioned brashness doe not seed a coherent and civilized discussion, let alone an organized debate.

Had I never explored past first impressions of screenshots of the first Shantae, (It seemed like an average platformer that at least tried to be pretty.) and failed to have an open mind to new experiences, not only would I have never been a Shantae fan, these forums simply would not exist. Even if you still believe I am wrong, all I can ask is that you take at least this much into consideration.

Maetch wrote:The immersion in Sequin Land is fine without hearing everybody talk your ear off. To me, Shantae is a series that (like Mario or Kirby) is too clean and cheerful to have it all ruined by excessive voice-acting.
And that's what I was getting at in my post. In moderation, this can be done organically, but shoehorning voices in everything would be both annoying and flow-breaking, and personally, they would make the most sense in animated cutscenes anyway. Whether voices should markedly refrain from in-game text, as you'd likely prefer it, is something we share different opinions on, and that's fine.

In fact, I would actually be interested in your perspective, since I had very little experience in games before the fifth generation; simply playing a game from the 80's doesn't give me the perspective of a player from the 80's, so my expectations and desires for a game are different.
Voice-acting works in a story-heavy series, but Shantae is not that kind of series. She's more of a cutesy-silly platformer that relies more on "show, don't tell" in its storytelling, and the factor of the player's imagination is a big part of it. The text dialogue and character animation gets its point across, and the player's imagination does the rest. Once you add voice-acting, that sense of immersion vanishes. Now, instead of feeling like you are Shantae, you're just controlling her, and that's not as fun.

Also, voice-acting is expensive, and WayForward has enough money troubles as it is since they're essentially BEGGING us for money in order to make the next Shantae game. They should be putting the money towards expanding the game and story (Hero Mode, extra chapters) before even thinking of adding such pointless aesthetics that provide no gameplay value whatsoever.

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Re: "Shantae: Half-Genie Hero" Kickstart Campaign

Post by .Luke on Sun Oct 20, 2013 2:26 am

That's probably the most anyone's ever clarified what immersion is to them on this subject, as far as I know. (All I hear is about the voices being the issue, but never the why.)

In my own experience, I've never connected myself to the character that much, (I forget that I am there, but don't see myself through the character's perspective. I'm used to letting them be themselves, with me tagging along for the ride.) so I never really thought about hearing the player character talk could take that sense of control, or immersion, away.

Of course, Shantae's equally vocal in the text as her friends, so not quite the silent protagonist type like Master Chief, but I probably shouldn't compare Apples to Oranges. Link saying "I have found a mirror under the table!" in the Adventures of Link (Sorry if that's a spoiler to anyone!) was more of a moment to laugh at the text's one-time break away from Link's silence, than feeling like the character was acting on his own.

Maetch wrote:Also, voice-acting is expensive, and WayForward has enough money troubles as it is since they're essentially BEGGING us for money in order to make the next Shantae game. They should be putting the money towards expanding the game and story (Hero Mode, extra chapters) before even thinking of adding such pointless aesthetics that provide no gameplay value whatsoever.
Voice acting certainly isn't cheap, and WayForward knew it, because that was made an optional stretch goal instead of a mandatory part of the game's funding, so the game will be fine with or without it. (And if I recall this correctly, WayForward originally wasn't even going to give DuckTales voices, until Disney offered to round up most of the original cast.)

It's clearly something they would love to do, but they're not going to worry about it unless they've got the capitol to go around, hence the high value of the stretch goal, and the many multitudes of non-related goals sitting below it. Lots of other things will come first before voices have a chance.
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Re: "Shantae: Half-Genie Hero" Kickstart Campaign

Post by Protoman Red Bomber on Sun Oct 20, 2013 11:15 am

I'm with Luke...this could be simply done with a turn on/off switch. I'm a old school gamer but i really wanna try Shantae with voice acting and animated scenes. On some Megaman games they solved this kind of divergence with a "retro/classic mode".

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Re: "Shantae: Half-Genie Hero" Kickstart Campaign

Post by Paragon-Yoshi on Sun Oct 20, 2013 3:48 pm

In all honesty, I don't think we should divide into groups again.
I have seen before what it can do in the long run and I dont want it to happen here. :/


And before anyone thinks I am an imbecile who only shouts out loud but cannot explain.
I thought I explained it well enough and Maetch beat me to a better explanation.


Either way, I don't think this kind of immersion is anything freaky or crazy.
I figured it is natural for passionate video gamers to feel this way.
Every passionate gamer, that I met before, felt this way.
And I figured only people, who are either not into video games at all or only have it as minor side-hobby wouldn't feel this kind of immersion.

And if you think passionate gamers are picky about stuff, well then let them be picky.
This party is important too, for a democratic exchange.


In any case, I dont think you should see them as any kind of crazy or stupid people.
Immersion is always there for people. Not only with video games.
It is there with drawings, music and any other kind of media as well.
Some people can really immerse themselves into the media they are passionate about, while other people, who are not so much into it, cannot.
It's perfectly normal.
So keep that mind, please.
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Re: "Shantae: Half-Genie Hero" Kickstart Campaign

Post by .Luke on Sun Oct 20, 2013 5:22 pm

Except there's no split going on here. I asked Maetch for more insight and I got it; pretty casual conversation. I tried more catalyzing than polarizing.
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Re: "Shantae: Half-Genie Hero" Kickstart Campaign

Post by BossFight on Sun Oct 20, 2013 6:17 pm

I'm also with Luke. We don't expect to see voice acting anyway but if it WERE an option, I believe it could do well. More than anything else because WayForward has thought out cartoons and all kinds of ideas with Shantae. They know what they're doing here.

I see what you guys mean, but I also grew up on the old games that had no voice acting and most of them are on my top list of favorite games of all time. Even so, I personally believe Shantae's world and characters WOULD work with voice acting. It just feels to me that the type of dialogue used in the Shantae series fits with voice work. A game doesn't need an extensive story to use voice acting. In fact, short games with a lower amount of dialogue can be enhanced with well done voice acting, the Portal games being an example of this.
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Re: "Shantae: Half-Genie Hero" Kickstart Campaign

Post by Paragon-Yoshi on Sun Oct 20, 2013 6:46 pm

.Luke wrote:Except there's no split going on here. I asked Maetch for more insight and I got it; pretty casual conversation. I tried more catalyzing than polarizing.
Well, I feel uneasy about that "I am with X and I am with Y" stuff.

Maybe it is just me being paranoid. But like I said, I have seen where this led to before.
Everyone takes sides and the one at minority is eventually deemed insignificant and in the end, branded as whatever.


I have mentioned the Sonic fanbase here more times than I wanted. But it still serves as an example where it can lead to.


But either way, it is just me feeling uneasy.
And I don't want to be deemed a psychopath, lunatic or something, just because nobody here feels the same kind of immersion that I feel.
Bad experiences resurfacing maybe? Not sure. :S
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Re: "Shantae: Half-Genie Hero" Kickstart Campaign

Post by .Luke on Sun Oct 20, 2013 7:39 pm

The worst I've seen of this fanbase so far were people bickering about Shantae's skin color on the Kickstarter comments. (The pettiness of which I would have been quickly binned in the Archives, if that discussion had found its way here.)

Every fanbase is different, so discussions don't easily get out of hand here like they would in a typical Sonic community. (Strong emphasis on typical. Some communities are actually pretty nice and laid back, if you look for them.) As long as both sides respect each other, instead of attacking the other heatedly, then I see no need to hamper a perfectly healthy discussion.

BossFight wrote:I see what you guys mean, but I also grew up on the old games that had no voice acting and most of them are on my top list of favorite games of all time. Even so, I personally believe Shantae's world and characters WOULD work with voice acting. It just feels to me that the type of dialogue used in the Shantae series fits with voice work. A game doesn't need an extensive story to use voice acting. In fact, short games with a lower amount of dialogue can be enhanced with well done voice acting, the Portal games being an example of this.
Portal is definitely a good example of this. The games are short, and not exactly heavy on dialogue, but what is there is subtly-crafted comedy gold that enriches the whole experience. "SPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE". I can't think of one moment in Portal 2 that isn't quotable.
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Re: "Shantae: Half-Genie Hero" Kickstart Campaign

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